da

(Anonymous) 2013-10-20 06:02 am (UTC)(link)
the problem isn't that the protagonist wears a skimpy outfit while the audience and other characters drool over it, it was that the outfit was foisted on her in a scenario that was, for lack of a better phrase, rapey as hell. if the original transformation sequence had gone down in a way that wasn't loaded with rape imagery, then the idea of the kamui representing exposure and vulnerability wouldn't be nearly so problematic. while the intended message of episode three was probably something along the lines of, "i will no longer let this unwanted attention make me feel dirty and ashamed of myself", the message that came across was,"i will accept this situation where i was sexually violated and will continue to be sexually violated, but it's okay, i just needed some time to get used to my creepy rape suit"

tl;dr while i agree with you on what the kamui are supposed to symbolize, the symbolism is more or less tainted at this point, and i don't see a way for the writers to fix it in a way that won't make the situation worse

ayrt

(Anonymous) 2013-10-21 01:27 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, I get where you're coming from.

I guess the thing is I'm not coming from a place where I thought of that scene as rapey. I mean, now that I've seen the comments in this thread I get it but that wasn't my reaction to it. I was pretty much taking it at face value and just thinking "man, this freaky talking uniform thing really wants somebody to wear it" because, well... it's sentient clothing. Though now that I think about it, yeah, they could have handled her getting Senketsu in a much better way.

I wasn't trying to change anybody's mind or try to imply that they should "get over" something they're not comfortable with. I was just trying to explain what I thought the show is trying to say.

drive-bye anon

(Anonymous) 2013-10-21 02:43 pm (UTC)(link)
I just wanted to say thank you with the way you handled this by explanation and clarification for this anon, and not red-eyed, buttmad name-calling and screaming down someone's throat.

It makes me so uncomfortable when SJW yell furiously at you instead of calmly explaining why certain thinking can be problematic.

Re: drive-bye anon

(Anonymous) 2013-10-21 03:08 pm (UTC)(link)
this isnt condescending at all

Re: drive-bye anon

(Anonymous) 2013-10-21 05:35 pm (UTC)(link)
yes, we should definitely consider your feelings over those who are uncomfortable with rape imagery in the first place.

(Anonymous) 2013-10-21 08:18 pm (UTC)(link)
sorry, but two wrongs don't make a right

feminism against rape culture isn't about putting one topic on a pedestal and completely bypassing the feelings of other people who don't understand by talking down to them instead of explaining things to them rationally. you won't get your message across at all. people will automatically just be defensive and resistant.

(Anonymous) 2013-10-21 08:23 pm (UTC)(link)
or how about if you obviously don't know what you're talking about in a conversation like this, you just plain don't participate. and even then, this isn't a place for rational discussion and you need to stop pretending like it is. this is fucking wankgate.

(Anonymous) 2013-10-21 08:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I didn't know you had a radar that told you, an anon on the Internet, that I had no idea what I'm talking about. Because yes, you are All Redeemer and Understander of what people know.

and i'm not sure what world you are from but you can have perfectly rational discussions even on wankgate about a questionable anime with some questionable subject matter. wg not a black, dark portal in the nether exempt of all rationality.

or are you trying to say you are exempt from being a rational human being? idk how anyone can stand up and say they want to defend and protect so many victim's rights but can so easily crush altruism and empathy under their foot when it comes to, god forbid, people who have never experienced bad things in their life and may not understand why something is as wrong as it is, especially something in the media

da

(Anonymous) 2013-10-21 09:12 pm (UTC)(link)
first of all, that was obviously a general "you" and secondly, you're not showing a lot of empathy or altruism when you (and I should remind you that these are general "you"s though if you want to take them personally so you can continue on being a defensive asswipe, then sure) come into a discussion that is very obviously volatile and beyond the scope of rational discussion and try to force it into one. You're not doing yourself, or anyone else, any favors.

you either a) sit back, read, listen, then research later in order to not start arguments like this or b) take your opinion to a place where people are either more likely to agree with you and/or NOT likely to start a giant anonymous internet fight. Yes, rational discussion happens sometimes on wankgate but the mood and format of the community doesn't lend itself to it and you're a naive idiot to imagine otherwise.

"I'm not here to educate you" is annoying and shuts down rational discussion, yes, but this discussion was never rational to begin with, especially here and especially dealing with a huge hotbutton issue as rape culture reflected in media.

not the ayrt

(Anonymous) 2013-10-21 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
sorry, i didn't get the memo that you couldn't come here with a passive opinion and expect it to be a place where no one will agree at all

i'm p sure the anon wasn't even trying to force everyone into a rational discussion. they were trying to thank someone who took the time and effort (esp in a place like this) to calmly and collectively inform someone on the problems of defending or excusing media with questionable subject matter.

seems to be plenty of people putting their foot down about apologists' behavior, but those same people can't stand it when they are called out for their terrible behavior to other people too

Re: not the ayrt

(Anonymous) 2013-10-21 10:15 pm (UTC)(link)
you are deliberately exaggerating my point so you can come out sounding like a victim. it's really embarrassing.

(Anonymous) 2013-10-22 12:26 am (UTC)(link)
or bypassing the feelings of people who do understand but who don't share your opinion. believe it or not, survivors aren't a hivemind, and not everyone who says they don't have a problem with it doesn't understand.

sa

(Anonymous) 2013-10-22 04:16 am (UTC)(link)
...well, this escalated quickly

http://www.dailydot.com/fandom/kill-la-kill-fanservice-anime-sexist-critique/

(Anonymous) 2014-04-25 09:14 pm (UTC)(link)
holy shit