Oh yeah I do know about all of that (I actually have been meaning to app Saya somewhere!) I was just saying the majority isn't like that (see 90% of 18+ VNs ever released, not just ones in the states) but there's appable instances out there. I've always been meaning to check out Forest but I heard that it's a wonderful concept kind of soiled by having too much porn.

I'd also like to add G-Senjou no Maou and Muv Luv Alternative (though the characters in that one weren't nearly as compelling as the plot itself) to that. G-Sen in fact has probably the lowest porn to story ratio I've probably ever seen. I'll also check out Kara no Shoujo once my big backlog is wiped out too.