I think that's exactly it for me. I wouldn't have minded if Gai hadn't defeated Madara and the kages had eventually been beaten by him and all. IF that had been shown as weakening him up and clearing the way for the Power Team to go in and finish him off. Instead he just kind of brushed everything off and never really showed any vulnerability. And for a manga that had, originally been all about teamwork and using each member's strengths and groups working together for a goal
that was just a super disappointing way to have the main villain.
As a reader I had no satisfaction from the whole arc at all and that, as a writer, was the one thing he should have tried to deliver. Even if I hadn't agreed with how Kishi went about it, those themes he'd introduced and harped on for so long should have been a part of the finale. And instead I got nothing but frustration and not the good kind out of the entire arc.
I agree it was Kishi's crush on the Uchiha that ruined things too. The second he decided Sasuke was so much more important than his plot in the story merited (and why for some reason everyone agreed he was that important?) the story started shifting away from using your head and into just hitting the next super saiyan level and as silly as some of Naruto's growing powers were, they tended to have an understandable progression at least. Sasuke (and Itachi) just suddenly started pulling eye powers out of thin air. Never heard of that jutsu before? oh well, its their eyes. Super power doesn't make sense? Its their eyes. Cheat death and reset time? Totally Uchiha magic eyes. Everything was just a new plug for super Uchiha eyes. Naruto and Sakura are out their training their butts off and Sasuke just needs to get the feels to power up to the next level? So much wrong with how off track from where it began the series went.
For a writer that was so good at populating the world with interesting characters, Kishi didn't mind throwing them all to the side at all when it came to his special snowflakes.
I wouldn't have minded it either. A small part of me hoped that maybe Kishimoto would return to the original message that hard work/team work pays off in time to defeat the final villain. Unfortunately that message had been abandoned long ago and in the end Neji was right. Neji had always been right.
That's what so frustrating about it. Naruto and Sakura had to work so hard for what they had but in the end none of it mattered. Sakura got fucked over so the focus could be more on Sasuke and Naruto. While in the end Naruto's abilities were all because of a ancient alien so all that training he did never really mattered.
By the end of the manga I was honestly quite happy that my favorites got forgotten about. God knows what he would have done to them if he hadn't.
I think that's the saddest/most frustrating part of the whole series.
That it had so much potential.
So many interesting characters, such a wide world to explore, such an interesting structure both in the village itself and between the nations. The clans, the different specialized powers at the cost of inbreeding, the shinobi that didn't belong to clans. The entire shinobi system, so messed up, so much potential for fixing or exploring. Each of the characters had their own struggles and the way those struggles bonded them together with first their team and then their generation. Even the parts the older generations played in everything. The missions, the political intrigue, the Tailed Beasts, the criminals, the civilians. So so much potential and I honestly dd love the main character and feel for him when I started reading things too. I was willing to go along for that ride because I could care about the characters and their story was sure, a repeat of 'friendship is power' and 'teamwork!' and all but I liked the way those were woven in.
And then everything just derailed and you can hardly even recognize the story if you take the first manga and put it up against the last one.
So much potential. So so much potential. That's what makes the ending and the waste of all the potential, all those stories i expected to read, all that build up and ground work so disappointing. Fifteen years. I'm glad I didn't go along for the entire ride and just dropped in from time to time. I can't imagine if I'd invested fifteen years into that circus.
(and, heh, my favorite character died before the manga began. I found I regretted that less and less as the series went on)
The second he decided Sasuke was so much more important than his plot in the story merited (and why for some reason everyone agreed he was that important?)
you hit the nail on the head for me. it wasn't just that sasuke got more story focus, it was the fact that we were never given a compelling reason as to why so many characters had such a huge boner for him and spent so much time and effort on him. i feel like it would have been great character development for naruto to realize that he couldn't redeem sasuke through the power of friendship and have to come to terms with that and acknowledge that sasuke didn't want to be saved. it also bugged me that sakura held onto her childhood crush on sasuke way beyond all reason and was never allowed to grow past it and realize he never gave a shit about her. wasn't there a scene where sakura had an opening to kill him but she couldn't do it because ohnoz i'm still in love with him!!? come the fuck on.
Right? I know. I think it would have been incredible adult if Naruto had needed to put Sasuke down at the end of the manga and realized that some things just can't be fixed, no matter how badly you want them to.
But I don't see how a shonen manga where the overriding law for all shonen manga, not just Naruto, is about how the power of friendship triumphs over all.
I find Sakura's storyline one of the most tragic. Ending up married to someone that both tried to kill you and almost constantly abused you when you were putting your emotions on the line for them is a horrible thing to have happen to you. I don't care how much Kishi claims he can't write girls as his excuse (and he can't). There's no way anyone could think that what happened to Sakura when it came to Sasuke was anything but a cope out. It reminded me of How I Met Your Mother's ending. As if the story had already been decided at the very beginning and no matter how the character's grew and developed beyond what the writer had originally intended, they still stuck with the pre-decided ending. She was so ready to stand toe to toe with everyone else but the second Sasuke showed up, Sakura entirely lost her spine. I know women like that irl. And it should have been treated as the unhealthy response that it was if Kishi was going to insist on going that route, not as 'true luv'.
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wankgate2016-05-01 10:03 am
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-05-03 06:59 am (UTC)(link)that was just a super disappointing way to have the main villain.
As a reader I had no satisfaction from the whole arc at all and that, as a writer, was the one thing he should have tried to deliver. Even if I hadn't agreed with how Kishi went about it, those themes he'd introduced and harped on for so long should have been a part of the finale. And instead I got nothing but frustration and not the good kind out of the entire arc.
I agree it was Kishi's crush on the Uchiha that ruined things too. The second he decided Sasuke was so much more important than his plot in the story merited (and why for some reason everyone agreed he was that important?) the story started shifting away from using your head and into just hitting the next super saiyan level and as silly as some of Naruto's growing powers were, they tended to have an understandable progression at least. Sasuke (and Itachi) just suddenly started pulling eye powers out of thin air. Never heard of that jutsu before? oh well, its their eyes. Super power doesn't make sense? Its their eyes. Cheat death and reset time? Totally Uchiha magic eyes. Everything was just a new plug for super Uchiha eyes. Naruto and Sakura are out their training their butts off and Sasuke just needs to get the feels to power up to the next level? So much wrong with how off track from where it began the series went.
For a writer that was so good at populating the world with interesting characters, Kishi didn't mind throwing them all to the side at all when it came to his special snowflakes.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-05-03 07:20 am (UTC)(link)That's what so frustrating about it. Naruto and Sakura had to work so hard for what they had but in the end none of it mattered. Sakura got fucked over so the focus could be more on Sasuke and Naruto. While in the end Naruto's abilities were all because of a ancient alien so all that training he did never really mattered.
By the end of the manga I was honestly quite happy that my favorites got forgotten about. God knows what he would have done to them if he hadn't.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2016-05-03 07:38 am (UTC)(link)That it had so much potential.
So many interesting characters, such a wide world to explore, such an interesting structure both in the village itself and between the nations. The clans, the different specialized powers at the cost of inbreeding, the shinobi that didn't belong to clans. The entire shinobi system, so messed up, so much potential for fixing or exploring. Each of the characters had their own struggles and the way those struggles bonded them together with first their team and then their generation. Even the parts the older generations played in everything. The missions, the political intrigue, the Tailed Beasts, the criminals, the civilians. So so much potential and I honestly dd love the main character and feel for him when I started reading things too. I was willing to go along for that ride because I could care about the characters and their story was sure, a repeat of 'friendship is power' and 'teamwork!' and all but I liked the way those were woven in.
And then everything just derailed and you can hardly even recognize the story if you take the first manga and put it up against the last one.
So much potential. So so much potential. That's what makes the ending and the waste of all the potential, all those stories i expected to read, all that build up and ground work so disappointing. Fifteen years. I'm glad I didn't go along for the entire ride and just dropped in from time to time. I can't imagine if I'd invested fifteen years into that circus.
(and, heh, my favorite character died before the manga began. I found I regretted that less and less as the series went on)
da
(Anonymous) 2016-05-03 02:01 pm (UTC)(link)you hit the nail on the head for me. it wasn't just that sasuke got more story focus, it was the fact that we were never given a compelling reason as to why so many characters had such a huge boner for him and spent so much time and effort on him. i feel like it would have been great character development for naruto to realize that he couldn't redeem sasuke through the power of friendship and have to come to terms with that and acknowledge that sasuke didn't want to be saved. it also bugged me that sakura held onto her childhood crush on sasuke way beyond all reason and was never allowed to grow past it and realize he never gave a shit about her. wasn't there a scene where sakura had an opening to kill him but she couldn't do it because ohnoz i'm still in love with him!!? come the fuck on.
ayrt
(Anonymous) 2016-05-03 03:49 pm (UTC)(link)But I don't see how a shonen manga where the overriding law for all shonen manga, not just Naruto, is about how the power of friendship triumphs over all.
I find Sakura's storyline one of the most tragic. Ending up married to someone that both tried to kill you and almost constantly abused you when you were putting your emotions on the line for them is a horrible thing to have happen to you. I don't care how much Kishi claims he can't write girls as his excuse (and he can't). There's no way anyone could think that what happened to Sakura when it came to Sasuke was anything but a cope out. It reminded me of How I Met Your Mother's ending. As if the story had already been decided at the very beginning and no matter how the character's grew and developed beyond what the writer had originally intended, they still stuck with the pre-decided ending. She was so ready to stand toe to toe with everyone else but the second Sasuke showed up, Sakura entirely lost her spine. I know women like that irl. And it should have been treated as the unhealthy response that it was if Kishi was going to insist on going that route, not as 'true luv'.
da
(Anonymous) 2016-05-06 01:03 am (UTC)(link)