wankgate | The Fifty-Somethingeth

Besides being weird as fuck, this doesn't actually point out if the guy is incapable of playing. Is he bad IC? A ship-pusher? A flake? What's really bad about this guy besides Nasuverse nitpicking?

I don't think playing the character with a non-canon gender identity using a flimsy and borderline offensive justification is "nitpicking"

It is when you keep in mind Saber isn't a character dictated by her gender, but by the choices and actions she decided was best as her character.

it doesn't matter if Saber's actions are "dictated by her gender." it's not any different than playing Naoto and deciding she MUST be trans because she crossdresses, even though her motivations for doing so are explicitly stated to be something else.

And I'm stating that, without some sort of presented evidence, it is entirely different from the people that decide to play Naoto as trans (a character, mind, whose sex and sexuality do play a significant role in her development iirc). Saber, on the other hand, is not a character governed by her sex or sexuality aside from her relationship with Shirou, which, while playing a role in her dynamic development in FSN, was not an absolutely paramount issue.

I'm not willing to mock or damn this player any further than "Oh, boy, ANOTHER snowflake wannabe pushing gender issues where they do not exist", as I haven't been presented with anything that dictates he's a horrible player. He's making a difficult-as-fuck choice about one of Saber's least-important traits and celebrating it here and there on his plurk, but that's about it. I'll laugh at the bad mistakes he makes when he actually makes them is all I'm really saying.

jw, have you looked at the justification they gave? it's on the journal. it contains what is at best misinterpreting canon and at worst purposefully twisting it to support a bigender reading. the player doing either of those indicates characterization issues on a level beyond nitpicking.

though, wtf, I still don't see how people taking issue with someone playing a character with an non-canon and unjustifiable gender identity is nitpicking to begin with. they could be the most perfect Saber in the world other than that and going "well, she doesn't like being boxed into a female role, so she must be genderqueer!" would still be unacceptably offensive.

He's making a difficult-as-fuck choice about one of Saber's least-important traits and celebrating it here and there on his plurk

yeah, sorry, but that right there is offensive as hell. here's some asshole, bragging to himself and patting himself on the back about how ~*~unique~*~ it is. it may not be sexual, but it fetishistic as fuck and reduces people on the trans spectrum to gimmicks and accessories, and it's absolutely fucking disgusting. now, if he played it out without being so fucking full of himself, i'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. but he's not so he can go fuck himself with a rusty rake.

well, considering how he got arturia's gender identity completely wrong, i think it's safe to say that he's probably pretty bad ICl

Except that a LOT of Saber's actions and thoughts in both canons have next to nothing to do with her gender outside the area of Shirou and romance. Everything she does, she does in relation to other people and her choices as being King Arthur, as well as working toward erasing what she views as her biggest sin.

Now if this dude does nothing BUT focus on gender in lieu of characterization, then yeah they're a shitty Saber (see also, mama_saber). But if they're actually not ICly waving their gender in every character's face and are acting like Saber, then this remains a low-level wank, and we'd have to wait for the player to actually do something wanky.

They don't have to wave gender around to make this a bad decision. True, her actions aren't dictated by her gender - neither are many characters.

The fact that they misread her gender, however, means they have a poor grasp of the character and the canon, ontop of being flippant about a character's own gender identification.

In my past experiences, yeah they actually do have to be waved around. I've seen people adore players' characterizations up and down and in the same breath either damn or disregard some quirk said players would make toward a muse's sex or sexuality. An above anon mentioned Naoto, who is a very easy target of this. Until some heinous ooc wank went down, Amat's first Naoto was praised for all characterization she displayed. And making the character trans was largely overlooked until, again, some wank went down. And then it became a questionable issue.

You're opting to call the baby ugly preemptively. I'm simply not willing this time around. It's not like I am not willing to accept I'm wrong--I very well could be. But for now it remains to be seen.

Just because some other player got away with fucking around with a character's gender identity doesn't make it okay in this case, or any case ever. Like the anon below me said: either this player doesn't understand Saber well enough to get into her more complex issues well, or they're just a plain disgusting person. I personally would not want to stick around long enough to find out, because I find being a dick about gender issues to be a complete deal killer for me: good characterization or not, they're playing Arturia incorrectly and in a rather offensive manner. I think that's more than fair cause to call them on their shit and not want to go anywhere near them.

And making the character trans was largely overlooked until, again, some wank went down. And then it became a questionable issue.

what's most likely is that there were people who were always bothered by the trans headcanon, but didn't feel comfortable complaining about a popular, well-loved character and player. when they were no longer popular or adored, they felt safe to bitch about them.

pretty much what the above anon said. also, canon is pretty blatant that she's a woman who's forced to play a man's role, and if he can't get that simple point i doubt he can understand more complex aspects of her personality. best case scenario, he massively misunderstood her canon history. worst case scenario, he's a gross fetishist who's using saber as a prop for either an actual sexual fetish, or as a prop to play something cool and unique and exotic, which is really fucking disrespectful

I'm gonna bow out of this as the points you've raised are going into a route I do not agree with nor care to discuss. So at this point it's a wait and see for me, personally. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and you get to laugh harder.

I do have a nitpick, however. Arturia chose that life. She wasn't forced into anything. She walked that path in full knowledge and belief and even after being warned what would be in store for her.

forced in the sense that living as a man was required to be a king, and she had no other option than to go with it or ollie out and give up her ideals.

nayrt

Arturia chose that life. She wasn't forced into anything. She walked that path in full knowledge and belief and even after being warned what would be in store for her.

And look how well it went for her. Even when she chose te path and was aware of the risks, it totally fucked her over.

Separate your feelings as the omnipresent viewer from her feelings as the character. In the end, she didn't regret her choices and learned to accept them. Time also marched on.

Hell, if you want to go the extra mile, Takeuchi basically cried croc tears at Nasu until Saber got her extra-special Eternal Happy End in the Realta Nua release.

The Fifty-Somethingeth

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