wankgate | 134: reading comprehension optional

and women fetishizing gay men is different?

What makes you so sure the guy is coming to dwrp specifically to get his f/f rocks off, and not just here in dwrp because he likes RPing and happens to play out f/f once in a while?

yes

women who fetishize gay men usually are not particular pushy, nor do they in my experience objectify the gay men they write about. male f/f writers almost always do both

double standard? maybe. but that doesn't make it any less true

>women who fetishize gay men usually are not particular pushy, nor do they in my experience objectify the gay men they write about.

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha

get off the meme kevin

it doesn't take kevin to know that straight women do the same damn thing to gay men that straight men do to lesbians.

what do you think a "fag hag" is, anon?

yaoi fandom is still a shithole, but there's been a pretty big pushback against fetishization/objectification in recent years. a lot of stuff that used to be totally acceptable is now strongly side-eyed. there's still a lot of objectification but yaoi fandom is so much better than it used to be.

the neckbeard side of the f/f world is still obsessed with heavily fetishized lolicon or borderline lolicon shit.

there's been a big pushback on lesbian fetishizers as well. in fact, it's been a bigger pushback, because the stupid fangirls who fetishize gay men don't get called sexist or sexual predators.

For all that people complain about yaoi fangirls, I haven't seen anyone unironically use seme/uke in years. It's also not cool to bash female characters who get in the way of gay ships anymore. And rape is a really sensitive issue in fandom, so rapey yaoi pairings and their fans get raked over the coals for being problematic.

Tbh I think slash fans tend to be worse than yaoi fans. Especially the ones who are into rpf. Gay celebrities like Adam Lambert and Chris Colfer attract some really creepy fans.

yeah, uhhhh

the whole "seme/uke" thing, which is present in basically all BL, is basically the definition of objectification

most explicit BL manga and straight and hentai I've come across are actually very similar. in BL the focus is on the uke (who is usually the "gayer" of the two men) being violated and humiliated, but secretly enjoying it. in hentai the focus is on the woman being violated and humiliated, but secretly enjoying it. you can argue that the latter is worse due to sexism, but it's still the same kind of thing.

japanese bl manga and doujinshi still cling pretty tightly to the seme/uke thing but in most of the fandoms i follow, the english fans are really into switching. you get so much praise on ao3 if you write a big buff bara dude taking it in the ass from a waifish bishounen. hardly anybody talks about seme/uke anymore in english, and old tropes like the height rule are kind of a joke now. the whole rape->romance thing gets widely criticized and dubcon fic is a lot rarer than it used to be. even the japanese stuff is sloooowly starting to show some variety beyond dorito-faced semes and crying ukes.

rp is a bit behind the times because so many rpers are into submission and dub/noncon kinks, but the rest of fandom has grown up a little.

it's still technically the same trope

i see it in a lot of doujinshi too, the big guy taking it

it's basically the equivalent of embarrassed anime fans now only being into live action or m/m fans that have grown up being strictly into het

stop it

I don't know what planet you're from to even remotely claim that.

no, because the "gay men" they objectify in their writing aren't ACTUALLY gay, but two straight dudes they insist are totally in love with each other. then they write non-stop about all the details of their buttfucking.

women who fetishize gay men usually are not particular pushy, nor do they in my experience objectify the gay men they write about.

lmfao

yeah, not pushy

except for when they accuse you of homophobia if you disagree with what they're doing.

lmao you are so steamed over not getting to creep on your preshus babbus in peace aren't you

um...no?

just tired of people treating gay men (or men they pretend are gay for their bean-flicking purposes) like their personal ken dolls to mash together, and accusing other people of homophobia if you don't dare follow along with their shit.

or pretending the slash/yaoi they write for the their own personal enjoyment is somehow the definition of respect and tolerance and good representation for gay men, and you're homophobic if you say otherwise.

What are you talking about? The straight women in dwrp objectify the fuck out of gay men. Just because you're not talking about dick sizes doesn't mean you're not objectifying them. The characters are still vehicles for their sexual enjoyment before they're anything else.

Men doing it to lesbians is still worse because they have society standing behind them and they have years of history behind it and every beer commercial, lesbian porno, suggestive advertisement, etc., is backing them up on that. Straight women don't enjoy the same mainstream approval of their objectifying gay men and the whole world doesn't cater to them on it. So there is a difference. That doesn't mean that realistically objectification of gay men by straight women in fandom doesn't happen. It totally does, and ime it's the vast majority of m/m out there.

i've played m/m for several years and i can tell you from experience that you're wrong

you're really, really wrong

if he just wants to write f/f sometimes, literally nobody cares. but when he wants to write f/f and ALSO start insisting that he is received a certain way by the group, that everyone on the site thinks about him the way he wants to be thought about, then you get into neckbeard entitlement.

i know guys who just play f/f in games and memes without making a big deal out of it. they're straightforward about being men and about liking f/f. they don't ask or nag other people for f/f, especially not women. they don't insist that anyone validate their f/f playing style or their choice to play f/f. they don't try to score points by comparing the scum they like to the scum other people like which is more widely accepted. they aren't shoving their lifestyles or preferences in anyone's face. these guys never get namedropped and they are seldom hard up for tags and threads.

the problem isn't the fetishization. it's mostly the pedo angle, since a lot of f/f guys prefer very young characters. yaoi dinks don't get a pass on this: "shota" is generally a bad word around here for a reason.

to sum, the real f/f problem is:
1. Acting loud and entitled about it
2. Preferring young characters in sexual situations

to this, i would simply add:
3. not taking no for an answer

this is mostly a sin committed by ~~kevin~~ f/f players in memes but it still very much applies. f/f meme players in my experience or a whole lot more likely to whine, shake and cry, beg, or even make a whole new journal just to play with you than to just politely fuck off

134: reading comprehension optional

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