i was thinking a lot about this lately, but what is it about rp that draws so many abusers into the scene?
when i was about seventeen, i entered into a relationship with my rp partner which turned emotionally and verbally abusive, not to mention skeevy as hell because she was about five years older than me. for the longest time i was embarrassed to talk about it until i realized that i wasn't alone because there are a shitload of scumbags similar to my ex in this hobby who prey on others. why is this such a frequent occurrence? is it a fandom thing?
It's partially a result of the medium of the hobby. Keep in mind that even when you're operating under a handle there's still a huge degree of anonymity that comes from doing anything online. For anyone who's suffering from anxiety, depression or any other type of mental illness, it's like a dream come true. And then there's the escapism angle to consider.
I'm of the mindset that many of the abusers who we see namedropped on here with the exception of the big ones like Ken didn't start out with an intent to abuse or manipulate. I think they got that way over time due to getting progressively obsessed with the hobby to an unhealthy extent, not getting any sort of treatment for whatever issues they had before or were cultivating from RP, and having enablers around to encourage their behavior no matter how awful it got. So as a result we have assholes like Tifa and Saph who strut around acting like whatever shit they pull is perfect and deflect any criticism they get legit or otherwise because they're so used to getting what they want and being told by their asspat brigade that the big mean anons are just blowing smoke as usual.
emotionally vulnerable people + geek social fallacies.
the biggest example of geek social fallacies taken to the extreme was furry fandom, which not only enables a shit load of scumbags in and covers for them, but the obvious scumbags made it harder to identify the milder ones.
DWRP is no where near as bad as furry fandom, but the geek social fallacies show up in almost every nerd hobby and their existence and premise of 'acceptance' allow people to get away with a lot more than might be traditionally acceptable in public. Throw in the internet and the ability to drop and build new aliases at the slightest change in the breeze and there's a lot of room for repeat offenders outside the behaviour threshold of the GSF to continue because all the new identities are held to the GSF as well.
GSFs rule out-of-character interaction more than a lot of rpers realize (or care to admit), especially "friendship above all". GSFs mean that even the most heinous people will have whiteknights who come blindly stumbling out of the woodwork to defend them beyond reason regardless of the behavior because ~they're my friend~, a phenomenon most recently seen with second. it makes it easier for abusers to get away with abusive behavior when they have validation of any sort, because then they can cut away everyone who calls them out on it and retreat into their hugbox and lock down/delete all the proof. or else they can, like you said, build a new identity and continue finding victims.
imo it's not rp/fandom that's the key, it's the kind of people that's attracted to it? like i don't mean to say "anyone who's into fandom are kind of immature" but... well, that's sort of what i'm saying i guess.
like above anon said, there's probably some element of unhealthy balance between fandom and rl for an abuser and what started out as stunted social skills might've blown up into selfish, enabled behavior that hurts others. and they don't even really realize it or care, because it's easy to shove that shit aside when you can just block it with a click. there's technically no repercussion for what they do b/c other people like them enough, you start thinking maybe you're the only one with the problem, and if you make a big deal out of it they can just block and avoid. it's not hard to avoid things online.
i also think it ends up hitting a lot of teens b/c that's the age group we end up mingling with when it comes to some fandoms. and when you've got that kind of immature mindset where you're like "age doesn't matter we're all friends and equals here" when the reality is age matters a lot, then that's how we get messy situations. it might not have started as targeting (unless they're a real pedo or something) but ended up that way b/c that's who we hang with.
tl;dr - imo it's lack of social skills, immaturity, and a lifestyle unbalanced in favor of fandom/rp/online presence.
"there's technically no repercussion for what they do b/c other people like them enough, you start thinking maybe you're the only one with the problem, and if you make a big deal out of it they can just block and avoid. it's not hard to avoid things online."
this is the worst part imo. rp culture has fostered this bullshit "ignore all anons, they'll find something to complain about no matter what you do :^)" mentality that enables more harm than it does good. like i'll agree that there have been times when wankgate has targeted people for unfair reasons, but the times we've outed creeps and abusers outweighs any bitching done about flakiness with threads or what have you.
"and when you've got that kind of immature mindset where you're like "age doesn't matter we're all friends and equals here" when the reality is age matters a lot."
can vouch for this first hand as the op, and the fact that you get this mindset from grown ass adults going into their mid twenties is terrifying.
I'd say it's less of an issue of age mattering or not mattering and more an issue of people not drawing the line on when and where it matters.
The way I treat a 18-year-old and the way I treat a 30-year-old and the way I treat another person in the 25ish range isn't going to be much different when it comes to tagging them or plotting for games or discussing fandom stuff. And that's okay because that's a point where age really doesn't matter outside of things like compensating for conflicting schedules. On the other hand I'm not going to discuss my job, personal life, politics, or anything else like that with an 18-year-old the same way I would with a 30-year-old.
That's hardly a unique issue to roleplay, though. Check out the convention scene someday. You'll meet tons of people in their mid twenties that don't see any issue at all with sharing a room with teenagers or even minors, and then you get stared at and treated like you're crazy and awful and mean if you put your foot down and tell your roommates no dice.
yeah, and the "haters gonna hate" thing goes beyond rp too. it's in tumblr and it was in lj and forums and basically any big fandom back in the day. at this point i think it's always going to be around. the only cure is to learn how to handle criticism or negative experiences in healthy ways - something that imo is better taught irl. online, it's just too simple to avoid and hide in your hugbox, which never solves the problem or teaches you anything.
i'm still seeing the age thing with other 30+ peers, too. i just sit at the screen baffled like... you seriously can't be like this at this age. you can't throw tantrums like a kid and call yourself "young at heart" and you can't online date teens and shake it off with "they're mature for their age." these are just excuses for not taking responsibility for anything, including hurting other (possibly younger) acquaintances.
i do agree with above anon, tho. it's not like we shouldn't ever interact with teens, but we should (as the adult) be mindful of where lines are drawn because we're supposed to have more life experience to know better. then again, if you've done nothing but sunk yourself into your online presence... you might not have that. i feel like there are some socially-stunted adults online who are mistaking feelings of mentorship as feelings of romance, and it sucks to see that happen b/c it messes up what could've been a cool relationship between a younger and older fan of something. this probably isn't the case with you (op), since it seems like your partner was terrible and selfish and likely a lot of other things, but it's something i've noticed in other circles.
abusers are in every community, not just fandom. they're just people who are good at exploiting social norms and community dynamics to get away with what they're doing.
There are no more abusers in fandom than in any other social group. This is just where you notice them the most if it's where you're spending your time and energy.
the anonymity of the internet and the way rp works (interact with people, receive entertainment) makes it easy to see people as fun dispensers instead of people, which in turns makes it easy for people with issues to become very controlling and demanding of other people with issues
it's a little funny now but ngl, the last big fight i had with someone was over them using me as their fun dispenser instead of them treating me like the close friend i thought i was to them. the sad thing is, they didn't even understand what the problem was no matter how many times and ways i tried to explain.
I had an identical situation. We would come to blows over me not being being up for tags and, in one case, hating a character she wanted me to play for shipping.
It's why I don't really RP anymore. Having people like that in your life is incredibly draining.
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wankgate2015-03-23 07:32 pm
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 05:56 am (UTC)(link)when i was about seventeen, i entered into a relationship with my rp partner which turned emotionally and verbally abusive, not to mention skeevy as hell because she was about five years older than me. for the longest time i was embarrassed to talk about it until i realized that i wasn't alone because there are a shitload of scumbags similar to my ex in this hobby who prey on others. why is this such a frequent occurrence? is it a fandom thing?
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 06:01 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 06:21 am (UTC)(link)I'm of the mindset that many of the abusers who we see namedropped on here with the exception of the big ones like Ken didn't start out with an intent to abuse or manipulate. I think they got that way over time due to getting progressively obsessed with the hobby to an unhealthy extent, not getting any sort of treatment for whatever issues they had before or were cultivating from RP, and having enablers around to encourage their behavior no matter how awful it got. So as a result we have assholes like Tifa and Saph who strut around acting like whatever shit they pull is perfect and deflect any criticism they get legit or otherwise because they're so used to getting what they want and being told by their asspat brigade that the big mean anons are just blowing smoke as usual.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 06:47 am (UTC)(link)the biggest example of geek social fallacies taken to the extreme was furry fandom, which not only enables a shit load of scumbags in and covers for them, but the obvious scumbags made it harder to identify the milder ones.
DWRP is no where near as bad as furry fandom, but the geek social fallacies show up in almost every nerd hobby and their existence and premise of 'acceptance' allow people to get away with a lot more than might be traditionally acceptable in public. Throw in the internet and the ability to drop and build new aliases at the slightest change in the breeze and there's a lot of room for repeat offenders outside the behaviour threshold of the GSF to continue because all the new identities are held to the GSF as well.
+1
(Anonymous) 2015-04-02 12:52 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 07:07 am (UTC)(link)like above anon said, there's probably some element of unhealthy balance between fandom and rl for an abuser and what started out as stunted social skills might've blown up into selfish, enabled behavior that hurts others. and they don't even really realize it or care, because it's easy to shove that shit aside when you can just block it with a click. there's technically no repercussion for what they do b/c other people like them enough, you start thinking maybe you're the only one with the problem, and if you make a big deal out of it they can just block and avoid. it's not hard to avoid things online.
i also think it ends up hitting a lot of teens b/c that's the age group we end up mingling with when it comes to some fandoms. and when you've got that kind of immature mindset where you're like "age doesn't matter we're all friends and equals here" when the reality is age matters a lot, then that's how we get messy situations. it might not have started as targeting (unless they're a real pedo or something) but ended up that way b/c that's who we hang with.
tl;dr - imo it's lack of social skills, immaturity, and a lifestyle unbalanced in favor of fandom/rp/online presence.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 07:54 am (UTC)(link)this is the worst part imo. rp culture has fostered this bullshit "ignore all anons, they'll find something to complain about no matter what you do :^)" mentality that enables more harm than it does good. like i'll agree that there have been times when wankgate has targeted people for unfair reasons, but the times we've outed creeps and abusers outweighs any bitching done about flakiness with threads or what have you.
"and when you've got that kind of immature mindset where you're like "age doesn't matter we're all friends and equals here" when the reality is age matters a lot."
can vouch for this first hand as the op, and the fact that you get this mindset from grown ass adults going into their mid twenties is terrifying.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 12:54 pm (UTC)(link)The way I treat a 18-year-old and the way I treat a 30-year-old and the way I treat another person in the 25ish range isn't going to be much different when it comes to tagging them or plotting for games or discussing fandom stuff. And that's okay because that's a point where age really doesn't matter outside of things like compensating for conflicting schedules. On the other hand I'm not going to discuss my job, personal life, politics, or anything else like that with an 18-year-old the same way I would with a 30-year-old.
That's hardly a unique issue to roleplay, though. Check out the convention scene someday. You'll meet tons of people in their mid twenties that don't see any issue at all with sharing a room with teenagers or even minors, and then you get stared at and treated like you're crazy and awful and mean if you put your foot down and tell your roommates no dice.
ayrt
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 07:29 pm (UTC)(link)i'm still seeing the age thing with other 30+ peers, too. i just sit at the screen baffled like... you seriously can't be like this at this age. you can't throw tantrums like a kid and call yourself "young at heart" and you can't online date teens and shake it off with "they're mature for their age." these are just excuses for not taking responsibility for anything, including hurting other (possibly younger) acquaintances.
i do agree with above anon, tho. it's not like we shouldn't ever interact with teens, but we should (as the adult) be mindful of where lines are drawn because we're supposed to have more life experience to know better. then again, if you've done nothing but sunk yourself into your online presence... you might not have that. i feel like there are some socially-stunted adults online who are mistaking feelings of mentorship as feelings of romance, and it sucks to see that happen b/c it messes up what could've been a cool relationship between a younger and older fan of something. this probably isn't the case with you (op), since it seems like your partner was terrible and selfish and likely a lot of other things, but it's something i've noticed in other circles.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 09:20 am (UTC)(link)there are more assholes in the world than not, sorry to say
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 03:16 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 07:04 pm (UTC)(link)There are no more abusers in fandom than in any other social group. This is just where you notice them the most if it's where you're spending your time and energy.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 05:35 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 06:19 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
you should be working on my tags, dispensing my fun
/pushes button impatiently
no subject
+1
(Anonymous) 2015-04-01 08:22 pm (UTC)(link)It's why I don't really RP anymore. Having people like that in your life is incredibly draining.