wankgate | 250: this is the death wankgate has always deserved

how can you expect to be taken seriously when you're claiming someone being mildly rude to an enormous raging asshole is somehow a "both sides equally bad" situation

even giving you the benefit of the doubt you're not trek (or a friend/tool) that is just a stupid take

yes, realizing your entire being and identity is a lie is several bridges too far compared to those other things

yes? "you're actually a copy" means that all of their actions in said jamjar are essentially meaningless unless there's a way to reunite them with their original selves. i can see why players might want to opt out of that.

someone realizing that the game they've been playing is totally different to the game they thought they apped into is a pretty reasonable thing to be mad about actually.

>"you're actually a copy" means that all of their actions in said jamjar are essentially meaningless unless there's a way to reunite them with their original selves.

i mean, personally i disagree but only because i think the philosophical/existential implications would be really interesting to explore. but i can also understand why some players wouldn't want to engage with that.

i think the crux of the issue is it's in endgame and trek has been burnt-out long before the plot even started. the cages weren't supposed to last this long, and in hindsight it would have been better to set it up in a less-limiting way, but realistically it isn't going to be corrected now when it's the final event and the only mod is already running on empty.

that doesn't mean it's a good event, or that players are wrong for feeling bummed out, but going out with a whimper and some semblance of closure was about the best this game was going to get.

agree with the other replies to this. the other difference is i can read the premise and decide not to send my pacifist character to the fight a war game or my asexual character to the fuck or die game. characters who aren't suited to coping with the basic facts of the game and so wouldn't be fun to play there don't get apped. if the idea that their worlds were destroyed or they're copies is in the game info then i'll choose characters who can deal with that revelation if i want to play in that game. it can be an ic surprise, doesn't have to be an ooc one. but mods don't seem to trust players not to infomod i guess.

i can think of about ten different ways it could have been avoided off the top of my head right now. if trek is that burned out that they couldn't be bothered to complete their own plot in a coherent way they should have either ended it early or asked for a volunteer to take over. they had multiple players who basically ran the game for them some of the time. instead they flaked out, pissed everyone off and then threw a tittybaby fit in front of everyone when called out about it.

trek is getting what they deserve once and for all.

+1 this was why I had to drop. Not because

once and for all, until next time she tries to open a game, and then if anyone tries to say "hey remember when she screwed her playerbase and ruined endgame for everyone" people will cry grudgewank and app anyway

control freak mod gracefully stepping aside challenge (impossible)

go outside

you first trek

how does that make their actions in the jamjar any more meaningless than the standard "characters go home without any memories of the jamjar when players drop them" formula?

i get not wanting to play that existential crisis, but ime the revelation that you can't really go home forces a lot of characters to put meaning into the lives they have there instead of just waiting for the powers-that-be to whisk them back. there are other ways to do that that i prefer to the 'you're all clones/copies' thing, but i also don't think it means playing a completely different character.

Whelp, dw did a fucky. As I was saying, I dropped not because I disliked the idea, but I was playing the wrong character for that kind of twist.

And from my understanding even after the plot twist was revealed, it's nowhere updated on the game info or FAQ. So future players would come in with no knowledge of the main plotline.

the wol personality trait is "is a good and self-sacrificing person who cares a lot about their friends". that's it. i've played through msq and i play through every single side quest for piddly exp. there's really no hidden wol personality lore that isn't extremely obvious just by playing through msq (even the drk quests manifest in main story imo, but ymmv).

like sure that's not nothing, but it's disingenuous to say the wol has a fleshed out personality. yeah, they've got a couple sparse traits that amount to "hero," but there's so many ways you can interpret these vague generic traits... hence why there's so many radically different wol ocs who are all technically "in-line" with canon. you can be a generic do-gooder hero who loves their friends and is self-sacrificing, a sociopathic freak that happens to do good and is self-sacrificing, etc etc etc etc. i've seen a million iterations across ffxiv rp and they all are radically different despite sharing those same like 2 canon traits.

well for once thing the standard formula is expected in most games and isn't a surprise dropped on the players halfway through

as another anon said it might mean you app a different character. I have a few characters I play who would be triggered by this revelation due to their canon background and would be dramatically less fun to play because they would immediately try to kill themselves. I would never app them to a game where this is a possible outcome, so having it revealed halfway through would piss me off a lot.

as someone who joined later, i can confirm this. afaik this big reveal happened quite early on in the game but it was never mentioned anywhere in the ooc info. i learned about it ooc when another character told mine ic.

i get it, but the problem is less that mods don't trust players not to infomod and more...idk there are two separate issues i can think of here.

one is that, as a player, i like to be oocly surprised when i play in games. not every player feels this way, but some do. i like not knowing everything upfront. getting thrown curveballs has forced my characters into interesting, challenging situations and i don't get that experience when everything is revealed and pre-planned upfront.

the other issue is that most mods don't have the entire game plotted out from beginning to end before they open the game. even if they have the basic skeleton down, they may find that one idea just isn't working. or they may come up with something better, or watch the things that players are engaging with and rewrite the trajectory based on that. i would rather have a mod team that adjusts instead of sticking to everything they said when the game first opened to avoid disappointing anyone. even if you put all major changes to player vote, you're rarely going to get consensus. if 90% of the players love it and 10% hate it, those 10% are going to wish they knew before they apped and that's unavoidable.

i think a general disclaimer that not all plot information is revealed and the game may change as a result of plot twists or player actions is a good thing to have in game info, but even if you put that in you're bound to have a few players who end up caught off guard and disappointed.

i would bet cash money that it's because trek came up with it on the spot and never bothered to think about it or the ramifications for the game

the anon who said that trek ran sail like a murdergame was absolutely right. it's the definition of "don't think about it just go along with it" modding

i get where the complaints about "you're actually a copy" twists come from but ngl

given that copies of canon characters are literally what we're playing regardless of what a game mod has to say about it, the extreme reaction to them is still funny to me

like girlie what did you think you were doing this whole time

that's fair but it's also a risk of playing in a dynamic game. any plot revelation could make a character unplayable, that doesn't mean games should never have surprises. you're free to drop over a reveal you dislike but that doesn't mean any given game is bad for doing it.

girlie do you actually think the characters have IC knowledge that they're RP characters like is that the level of functioning your brain is on right now

this is definitely the case with trek, but some dwrpers would still riot over the most carefully planned and well-executed game reveal in the world. which would be fine if they stuck to low-stakes slice-of-life fare, but people join plotty games or horror games and complain when there's plot and horror.

yeah

thats why i said i understand the complaints

i just still think the juxtaposition is funny

read, stupid

see i like being oocly surprised too, and i assumed most other players did up to a point. having 100% of the plot info laid out ahead of time seems incredibly boring and feels like it would kill spontaneity. if the game info says "three months in, the characters will learn that this kindly npc is actually a villain" or whatever, even if you try otherwise, that is going to color your actions and impact how you play.

i get that there are limits to how much ooc surprise players should be expected to put up with, but it does feel sometimes like we'd have more fun if we just loosened up and rolled with the punches a little more instead of crying foul when mods try to shake things up.

250: this is the death wankgate has always deserved

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