wankgate | The Eighty-Second

That's a fairly lousy interpretation of the show anyway. The show's about standing up and above the crowd even at the cost of being exposed to judgement and ridicule.

Both Ryuko and Satsuki have ambitions that go above and beyond those around them and, like in real life, doing this puts them out there for attention and judgement that they might not otherwise want. This doesn't necessarily have to be a sexual kind of attention, but just look at anybody who puts their thoughts and opinions out there and see the crap foisted on them as a result for an example. The show uses the Kamui as a metaphor for not being afraid to accept judgement and ridicule for being true to what you believe and want in life, even if it means exposing yourself. That's what it's talking about when it refers to "getting naked." The regular uniforms are plain and covering because the characters wearing them are just following along, and not putting themselves out there to follow their own aspirations.

Now, I know a lot of people still don't like the show because of all the imagery and that's okay. Nobody's wrong for being squicked by it and choosing not to watch it, but the show's aiming for more than just being fetishist and fanservicey.

both of those interpretations are lousy and reaching.

be honest with yourself. seriously. do you think the people watching this show, and the people who created it for them, give any fucks at all about anything other than Rule of Cool and titilating the male audience? Because they could have done ALL OF THE SHIT both you AND that idiot on tumblr said without resorting to rape imagery

you keep trying to justify their use of the imagery and it's never going to work. this is why the argument never ends.

The argument never ends because people on both sides are clamping their hands over their ears at anything the other side expresses. Look, you don't have to like it and you're entitled to your opinion but this is Studio Trigger, using ludicrous, over-the-top anime cliches to get across a metaphor is what they do.

Gurren-Lagann cranked giant robot cliches up to eleven and used it as a metaphor for breaking down the obstacles that life throws at you and continuing even when it gets tough. Kill la Kill is cranking fanservice and ecchi cliches up to eleven and using it as a metaphor for doing what you want despite the judgement and ridicule it might earn you from society.

Hell, I totally understand why people feel iffy about this show and I know the content carries a lot of baggage. I side-eyed the hell out of it for most of the first two episodes but I felt like they were going somewhere with it, and they are. I know that there are basement-dwelling neckbeards who just want it for fap bait and nobody likes those guys, but watching it and either accepting or dismissing it because of what's only on the surface is a shallow way of thinking no matter which side you're on.

"I totally understand why people are grossed out by rape imagery but I'm going to keep telling them why it's okay in this case"

shut up.

no, you shut up. did you miss the part where they said they don't have a problem with people not liking the show?

they should leave it at that then instead of wasting words trying to defend the use of rape imagery in a show.

did YOU miss the part where the majority of their comment was spent saying why all the rape imagery, the very thing people have a problem with, was totally okay?

Well, that'll sure teach me to try to have a discussion. Keep fighting the good fight, anon.

you weren't having a discussion. you were trying to explain away the rape imagery in KlK as excusable. you were basically talking over everyone who is uncomfortable with this series in the same breath you were facetiously claiming to be okay with people's discomfort.

here's a little tip for the future: if you think about defending the presence of rape imagery in something when it's OBVIOUSLY stirring a lot of controversy? Just don't. Especially if you claim to respect people's discomfort with it.

da

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-21 03:43 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-21 03:45 (UTC) - Expand

+1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-21 04:37 (UTC) - Expand

Re: da

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-21 05:03 (UTC) - Expand

dda

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-21 05:13 (UTC) - Expand

Re: dda

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-21 05:34 (UTC) - Expand

Re: dda

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-21 22:16 (UTC) - Expand

Re: dda

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-21 23:07 (UTC) - Expand

ayrt

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-21 04:55 (UTC) - Expand

Re: ayrt

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-21 05:09 (UTC) - Expand

I can agree that they're theoretically trying to suggest all of those things without approving of the way they decide to do it. Mostly I just can't stand all this obnoxious SJW scrambling to try and plaster over the faults in their new favourite show. I don't give a fuck if people like it and it's stupid to judge someone solely on their taste in anime- it's okay to like problematic things, and I don't doubt for a second that there's a lot in it that's worth watching for the people who are enjoying it. But I will judge people for trying to pretend that something is somehow above criticism because reasons and then getting cranky and screaming that people just don't understand!! when people disagree for perfectly legitimate reasons.

pretty much this. in addition, don't say "I am okay with you not liking ___" and then spend the majority of your point defending ____ because it makes the first statement completely insincere. plus I can guarantee you almost everyone that doesn't like ___ is not interested in hearing why ____ is really okay, just misunderstood.

"I understand your opinion but disagree with it."

I'M A MONSTER!

Re: +1

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-21 05:02 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-21 05:08 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-10-21 05:10 (UTC) - Expand

while i agree with anon's theory about the show's message, i still think that the way it expresses its message is gross and uncomfortable as hell, and there's a million different ways it could have been done better. it's like a messy head-on collision between "how can we symbolize vulnerability and unwanted attention?" and "how can we drain as much money from lonely otaku as humanly possible?" and when you try to condense those two goals into one, well..

"Mostly I just can't stand all this obnoxious SJW scrambling to try and plaster over the faults in their new favourite show."
Same tune, everytime. Come on, a show doesn't have feelings, you don't have to whiteknight it.

the problem isn't that the protagonist wears a skimpy outfit while the audience and other characters drool over it, it was that the outfit was foisted on her in a scenario that was, for lack of a better phrase, rapey as hell. if the original transformation sequence had gone down in a way that wasn't loaded with rape imagery, then the idea of the kamui representing exposure and vulnerability wouldn't be nearly so problematic. while the intended message of episode three was probably something along the lines of, "i will no longer let this unwanted attention make me feel dirty and ashamed of myself", the message that came across was,"i will accept this situation where i was sexually violated and will continue to be sexually violated, but it's okay, i just needed some time to get used to my creepy rape suit"

tl;dr while i agree with you on what the kamui are supposed to symbolize, the symbolism is more or less tainted at this point, and i don't see a way for the writers to fix it in a way that won't make the situation worse

Okay, I get where you're coming from.

I guess the thing is I'm not coming from a place where I thought of that scene as rapey. I mean, now that I've seen the comments in this thread I get it but that wasn't my reaction to it. I was pretty much taking it at face value and just thinking "man, this freaky talking uniform thing really wants somebody to wear it" because, well... it's sentient clothing. Though now that I think about it, yeah, they could have handled her getting Senketsu in a much better way.

I wasn't trying to change anybody's mind or try to imply that they should "get over" something they're not comfortable with. I was just trying to explain what I thought the show is trying to say.

I just wanted to say thank you with the way you handled this by explanation and clarification for this anon, and not red-eyed, buttmad name-calling and screaming down someone's throat.

It makes me so uncomfortable when SJW yell furiously at you instead of calmly explaining why certain thinking can be problematic.

this isnt condescending at all

yes, we should definitely consider your feelings over those who are uncomfortable with rape imagery in the first place.

sorry, but two wrongs don't make a right

feminism against rape culture isn't about putting one topic on a pedestal and completely bypassing the feelings of other people who don't understand by talking down to them instead of explaining things to them rationally. you won't get your message across at all. people will automatically just be defensive and resistant.

or how about if you obviously don't know what you're talking about in a conversation like this, you just plain don't participate. and even then, this isn't a place for rational discussion and you need to stop pretending like it is. this is fucking wankgate.

...well, this escalated quickly

holy shit

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

da

da

+1

Re: +1

+1

+1

+1

da

ayrt

drive-bye anon

Re: drive-bye anon

Re: drive-bye anon

no subject

no subject

no subject

sa

http://www.dailydot.com/fandom/kill-la-kill-fanservice-anime-sexist-critique/