I think the show is pretty clear about Rose not handling the fallout of her conflict with Bismuth at all well , too. It kinda shatters her image as a flawless leader, and shows she made independent decisions that she wasn't honest with her friends and followers about.
Resistance isn't wrong when you are facing an oppressive system. Rose is treated as a hero in the series for starting a rebellion. But she had to draw a line in the sand when a weapon was created that could have shattered faith in one of Rose's key values - belief that individual gems, like people, are capable of change.
Bubbling enemies (or once-allies) in a 'time out' is a protective move that exists in the hope of redemption and change in the future. For a quartz, that is a radical technique- Jasper is happy to just pummel and break her enemies.
Ultimately, Breaking Point is a weapon that gives up on the hope of redeeming gems and changing their minds about following the status quo of gem society. For Rose, it was so Not Up For Debate that she was willing to make a really shitty choice to remove a longtime friend and ally discreetly from the picture and not tell any of the other Crystal Gems, who trusted her.
The episode speaks pretty clearly in Steven's actions that this certainly could have been handled better.
At the same time, Bismuths coding in voice and character design is an immediate link to real world racial and class conflict which makes us instantly identify her perspective, and while that may be criticised as stereotypical and tropey, it also draws a parallel so immediately recognizable that SU's progressive audience can identify and empathize with her in the span of a 22 minute special.
Tl;Dr the crewniverse tries its best, guys. They have a diverse cast and writing team that cares about narratives no other children 's animaed television is telling. Fan activity exists for clapback, so if you have a better story to tell about Bismuth, please do go out and write and share it as your own transformative work
idk why it's so unthinkable to you people that a piece of media being aimed at children doesn't disqualify it from critical discussion. stevie u fans tend to go overboard with The Discourse but it's not inherently worthless to have a discussion about children's media. kids deserve good shows, too.
Coding isn't really a personality thing, it's more of a appearance and behavioral thing. Sometimes it's done to create familiarity in a character, taking something not-human or fantasy human and giving it familiar human characteristics so we can identify it better. Think characters like the Northern Water Tribes in Avatar. Obviously that world is not our own and Eskimos/Inuits/Ainu/Nenets don't exist in that world, but we are better able to identify and recognize them because they are coded with the appearance and behaviors of those familiar cultures.
Sometimes, it's racist as fuck. The infamous crows in Dumbo are an example of racial coding used for racist mammy humor.
Garnet would be considered black coded, too. Which is part of what makes this HOW DARE THEY MAKE A BLACK CHARACTER THE WRONG ONE bullshit tumblr is freaking out over even more ridiculous tbh
also, imo bismuth is a well rounded character. she's not a stereotype, she's a morally grey, interesting character with clear motivations and is easy to empathize with, even if you don't agree with her choices. a character doesn't have to be always perfect and in the right to be a "good" character.
it would be an issue worth talking about if she was the only black coded character in the show, there for one episode and then dismissed for being too aggressive, but like you mentioned, garnet exists and is one of the main central characters.
I think it has less to do with Bismuth being a stereotype and more with Bismuth being presented to the audience as being in the wrong because of her idea to kill the Diamonds. Like that is the entire crux of the tumblr beef.
It just feels so... vastly removed from the context of the series. They weren't saying violent resistance is wrong, because the Crystal Gems frequently beat up their enemies plus the whole WAR thing. They weren't presenting a black coded character as wrong because they're black coded because another black coded character, one who has been there the whole fucking time, was ideologically opposed to her, so it wasn't a commentary on black behavior towards resistance or whatever.
I feel like the only way you can hold the position that the show was doing a disservice to black people in any way is if you didn't actually watch the show.
people want to be angry. because steven universe is a show that actually tries to be sensitive and inclusive, people started holding it to an absolutely absurd standard. if it's not absolutely perfect and inoffensive on every possible level, no matter which way you look at it, then it's the worst bullshit they've ever seen.
and even when it is inoffensive, at least on a sj level, they'll still find reasons to shit on the show they supposedly like, because these people just thrive off of drama, i guess.
but she isn't portrayed as a villain just because steven disagrees with her
i hate this idea that representation is bad if the character isn't a cinnamon roll and has actual flaws or conflicts, i always find characters like bismuth interesting but according to some parts of tumblr it's only "unproblematic" if they're a cishet white male
it is an issue when antagonists are the ONLY minorities on any given show, but like we said, Bismuth isn't the only black-coded Gem. Garnet's been there the whole fucking time.
I think this is the crux of the problem right here. Usually in any given show/book/movie/etc we only have ONE black character, and usually that one black character ends up being the antagonist. And even in cases where that black antagonist is redeemed, they usually end up dying too. So outside of media specifically made for black people, there is not much in the way of good representation.
So what happens when we have a show with several black-coded characters, all a mix of good and bad? People tend to forget the important part of the problem (that having a black character be the antagonist is primarily a problem when that antagonist is the ONLY black character in the entire canon), and automatically jump to getting angry when a black character isn't on the protagonist's side, even when there is plenty of representation within that series.
usually that one black character ends up being the antagonist
I don't know what media you're talking about, but this is very uncommon in modern children's media. The rest of your point is accurate, but black characters are more likely to be token friends in children's TV.
bismuth isn't even an antagonist though, she's still portrayed as a hero, just a tragic one and i'm not against seeing those roles with minority characters. the only real antagonists is jasper, who could be redeemed, and the diamonds.
and there's garnet and human black characters on the show who are obviously not bad guys. but i'm so tired of this idea that it's safer for minority characters in fiction to have no flaws, just because parts of fandom is stupid and mistakes a character having flaws with them being evil.
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wankgate2016-08-03 09:56 am
Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-07 08:03 am (UTC)(link)rose WAS a violent revolutionary who started a war for what she thought was right
Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-07 01:11 pm (UTC)(link)Resistance isn't wrong when you are facing an oppressive system. Rose is treated as a hero in the series for starting a rebellion. But she had to draw a line in the sand when a weapon was created that could have shattered faith in one of Rose's key values - belief that individual gems, like people, are capable of change.
Bubbling enemies (or once-allies) in a 'time out' is a protective move that exists in the hope of redemption and change in the future. For a quartz, that is a radical technique- Jasper is happy to just pummel and break her enemies.
Ultimately, Breaking Point is a weapon that gives up on the hope of redeeming gems and changing their minds about following the status quo of gem society. For Rose, it was so Not Up For Debate that she was willing to make a really shitty choice to remove a longtime friend and ally discreetly from the picture and not tell any of the other Crystal Gems, who trusted her.
The episode speaks pretty clearly in Steven's actions that this certainly could have been handled better.
At the same time, Bismuths coding in voice and character design is an immediate link to real world racial and class conflict which makes us instantly identify her perspective, and while that may be criticised as stereotypical and tropey, it also draws a parallel so immediately recognizable that SU's progressive audience can identify and empathize with her in the span of a 22 minute special.
Tl;Dr the crewniverse tries its best, guys. They have a diverse cast and writing team that cares about narratives no other children 's animaed television is telling. Fan activity exists for clapback, so if you have a better story to tell about Bismuth, please do go out and write and share it as your own transformative work
Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-07 05:01 pm (UTC)(link)found the racist
Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-07 05:22 pm (UTC)(link)Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
thought i'd check u here fam, cuz. just ringin the bell a lil bit abt how nobdy involved with this thread is unstupid.
Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-07 06:05 pm (UTC)(link)deal
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and besides that my spelling is just fine, bitch
now make me a sandwich
Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) - 2016-08-07 19:44 (UTC) - ExpandRe: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) - 2016-08-07 19:48 (UTC) - ExpandRe: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-07 07:14 pm (UTC)(link)Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-07 07:31 pm (UTC)(link)Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-08 12:16 am (UTC)(link)Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-08 12:55 am (UTC)(link)Sometimes, it's racist as fuck. The infamous crows in Dumbo are an example of racial coding used for racist mammy humor.
Garnet would be considered black coded, too. Which is part of what makes this HOW DARE THEY MAKE A BLACK CHARACTER THE WRONG ONE bullshit tumblr is freaking out over even more ridiculous tbh
Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-08 05:23 am (UTC)(link)it would be an issue worth talking about if she was the only black coded character in the show, there for one episode and then dismissed for being too aggressive, but like you mentioned, garnet exists and is one of the main central characters.
Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-08 05:42 am (UTC)(link)It just feels so... vastly removed from the context of the series. They weren't saying violent resistance is wrong, because the Crystal Gems frequently beat up their enemies plus the whole WAR thing. They weren't presenting a black coded character as wrong because they're black coded because another black coded character, one who has been there the whole fucking time, was ideologically opposed to her, so it wasn't a commentary on black behavior towards resistance or whatever.
I feel like the only way you can hold the position that the show was doing a disservice to black people in any way is if you didn't actually watch the show.
Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-08 05:49 am (UTC)(link)and even when it is inoffensive, at least on a sj level, they'll still find reasons to shit on the show they supposedly like, because these people just thrive off of drama, i guess.
Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-08 02:03 pm (UTC)(link)i hate this idea that representation is bad if the character isn't a cinnamon roll and has actual flaws or conflicts, i always find characters like bismuth interesting but according to some parts of tumblr it's only "unproblematic" if they're a cishet white male
Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-08 02:41 pm (UTC)(link)Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-08 02:55 pm (UTC)(link)So what happens when we have a show with several black-coded characters, all a mix of good and bad? People tend to forget the important part of the problem (that having a black character be the antagonist is primarily a problem when that antagonist is the ONLY black character in the entire canon), and automatically jump to getting angry when a black character isn't on the protagonist's side, even when there is plenty of representation within that series.
Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) 2016-08-08 07:47 pm (UTC)(link)I don't know what media you're talking about, but this is very uncommon in modern children's media. The rest of your point is accurate, but black characters are more likely to be token friends in children's TV.
AYRT
(Anonymous) - 2016-08-08 20:09 (UTC) - ExpandRe: AYRT
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(Anonymous) 2016-08-08 03:06 pm (UTC)(link)and there's garnet and human black characters on the show who are obviously not bad guys. but i'm so tired of this idea that it's safer for minority characters in fiction to have no flaws, just because parts of fandom is stupid and mistakes a character having flaws with them being evil.
Re: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) - 2016-08-08 15:16 (UTC) - ExpandRe: STEVEN UNIVERSE
(Anonymous) - 2016-08-08 17:18 (UTC) - Expandda
(Anonymous) - 2016-08-08 16:38 (UTC) - Expand+1
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(Anonymous) 2016-08-08 02:13 pm (UTC)(link)