who the fuck thought it would be a good idea to hire a baby alien, dress her up and have her pole dance, and get her to talk about being easy to promote their business?
what does 13 years mean in troll years? because i thread with them and not a single one behave like kids, they're more like teenagers or even older (sorry i'm canon blind)
They're six sweeps old by their species time-table, which means they're basically the equivalent of 13 year olds on Earth. Whether they're written as 13 year olds actually behave in canon or RP, I have no damn idea since I don't read the comic or RP with many Homestucks.
Homestuck characters, even the humans, are weird in their upbringing. In the trolls' case, they live in an extremely hostile society where even their caretakers might attack them for one reason or another, so they have to step up pretty fast. They're technically still teenagers, but act more like older teens or childish adults.
it means 13 years... idgaf how mature a child acts, if they're a child they're a child
plus if they're the equivalent of 13 human years and parading around as sexual objects for the sake of business promotion, my charater would call that shit out so fast
when it comes to fantasy creatures i generally ask what it means in their world because 13 human years may not work the same way for them, so depending on the case, 13yo may not be a child
i'm ok with your character calling that out though
Regardless of how old they act it's still gross to see a thirteen year old pole-dancing. I know 13 year olds in real life that talk about sex, which is skeevy enough but you deal. Seeing them actually put on skimpy clothing and do a pole-dance? That's just gross. Add in that they're talking about being easy and trying to sell sex...
since no one else pointed this out-- all the canon trolls are children by their society's standards. if they were of age, they would have been in the troll space fleet (since there are no adult trolls on the troll home planet).
... well not ALL the canon trolls, but the original 12 that you see the most (Karkat, Kanaya, Vriska, Eridan, etc.)
Canon is currently introducing another 12 who are about ~18-ish? and there are historical adult trolls who are mostly all dead, but that's later shenanigans and stuff.
Putting aside that it's pretty much a crap conversation on both parts (I don't know feferi that well as a character, but this seems derpy even for her, and the Rise is more than a bit prudish for the character), I've noticed a real tendency in those who view homestuck aliens.
Some people treat them as obviously not human and worry about their maturity by their culture's standards, and how well this translates to human understandings.
Some people say "ew, they're thirteen."
My issue with the second is that this is a bit like asking to card the random aliens in a Star Wars cantina. Their biologies, cultures and personalities are all radically different from a human's. There's mixed views on whether or not mating between a troll and a human is even biologically possible (because the author just sort of pointedly skirts the question and refers to their romance/reproduction as weird and overly complex.).
It's like saying a D&D or Pathfinder Elf is "good to go" sexually at the age of eighteen because, well, they're eighteen, right? Except that elves aren't considered fit to leave society until they're eighty or so. The average Salarian out of Mass Effect looks semi-humanoid, but has a lifespan of around 40 years. Are the the sort of creature that should be held to a 70-80 average human lifespan in terms of social maturity? Reproductively, trolls are hitting puberty at or just before, and mature in odd ways (given that their individual biologies vary by blood type). Their culture resembles nothing like earth, and they barely understand its culture at best.
Saying "ew, they're 13" is understandable. I 'get' that the hangup's there, but what I don't understand is why you're assuming they're human. What?
"Their culture resembles nothing like earth, and they barely understand its culture at best" is why it's even worse that she's being exploited. she's a child even for her race, and she makes it clear that doesn't understand what she's doing or what it means to appeal to a primarily human game like that.
it's not a cute or a funny post, it's skeevy and weird and i'm honestly surprised there aren't more characters saying something about it. i'm guessing this isn't a very serious game or something?
Gargleblasted is a game where people made posts about characters taking a shit or falling in a nasty toilet (mieu's post). No, the game isn't very serious. It's not meant to be.
That's because nobody in the game really cares. If they don't like a post or character, they just ignore it/them. They don't care enough to cause wank or confront unless it's something really out of line in their point of view.
it's not even wank tho. like i wouldn't make my character a mouthpiece if they weren't the type to care even though i dislike the post, but i do have characters that would definitely take issues with it and would say something. i really doubt i'm the only person who plays characters that would have problems with that post.
but apparently this isn't a serious game so i can see why no1curr.
Like I said, putting aside the really crappy post. I think you're right. Feferi's player seems intimately aware she's thirteen and is playing up the fact that she's a vulnerable character being manipulated and used for a lark. There's a bit of a skeevy feel to the way that this player is treating the scene. No disagreement here.
I am actually more trying to question and address the general view that treats these characters as basically human, but with gray skin. In a way, even the Feferi-mun is slightly guilty of this. Though they use different words for certain concepts and play up a little non-human behavior, they do give off the vibe of "I got away with putting this kid on stage," which is just as problematic (if not worse) as the other extreme of "How dare you put them in any adult situations. They're 13!"
So, yes, we agree that this player's got some issues going here. I'm trying to move past and ask a question about a more general habit in the HS fandom. However, this is wankgate, so I'm not sure it's the best venue for the topic to really be considered.
I understand your point, but the Homestuck trolls are kind of a bad example of the fantasy race thing, because they are very obviously supposed to be on the same mental level as normal human teenagers. Yes, they have differences from humans that need to be observed, but they have lots of similarities, too. I mean, the entire point is that they're annoying teenage internet trolls. So yeah, saying "But they're thirteen" in the context of Homestuck is pretty legitimate. Now I say that as someone who has written un-aged-up sex for them before (well, they were at the fifteen mark I guess), so I'm being a little hypocritical, but I guess what got me was that they made it seem like Feferi had no clue what was going on, which is super creepy. But my point here was that you're saying "look at the context" when the context really is "these are teenagers with many of the same emotional reactions human teenagers have."
Races like elves, that you mentioned, where 18 can't really be the age for sex if they're still considered mentally children at 200, are much better examples than the trolls. Sure, they've had a hard life, but we see them doing lots of normal things, too; playing with toys and games, getting into petty arguments with friends, showing love or at least caring for their lusii, getting and losing crushes with ridiculous frequency, and pretty much everything else you witness on a typical day in any junior high. That's why "But they're 13!" really does work in this instance.
don't care about the Feferi one way or another, but anon, let me just drop in here to say thank you. this sort of thing always gets my goat when it comes to fictional races, because they're always held up to human standards when they're not.
not just on the age front, but people have a bad habit of making them view, say, sex or violence the same way (violence is bad, sex before a certain age/done in a certain way is bad, etc.). I hate this trend of holding non-human characters up to human standards, and I hate it even worse when people play non-human characters as having surprisingly human-moral convictions when they really shouldn't.
I've never been able to put my buttrage into adequate words before, and your post does just that. so, thanks.
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Re: http://gargleblasted.dreamwidth.org/2829716.html?thread=422533268#cmt422533268
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 04:53 pm (UTC)(link)+1
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 05:02 pm (UTC)(link)Re: +1
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 05:06 pm (UTC)(link)Re: +1
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 05:10 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 05:14 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 05:21 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 05:27 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 05:33 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 05:39 pm (UTC)(link)plus if they're the equivalent of 13 human years and parading around as sexual objects for the sake of business promotion, my charater would call that shit out so fast
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 05:52 pm (UTC)(link)when it comes to fantasy creatures i generally ask what it means in their world because 13 human years may not work the same way for them, so depending on the case, 13yo may not be a child
i'm ok with your character calling that out though
(no subject)
(Anonymous) - 2012-10-12 17:55 (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
(Anonymous) - 2012-10-12 17:58 (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
(Anonymous) - 2012-10-12 18:00 (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
(Anonymous) - 2012-10-12 19:35 (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
(Anonymous) - 2012-10-13 02:33 (UTC) - Expandda
(Anonymous) - 2012-10-13 03:16 (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
(Anonymous) - 2012-10-12 23:56 (UTC) - Expandno subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 05:40 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 05:49 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 05:56 pm (UTC)(link)i'm asking if she's a child according to troll's world
as i already explained up there, maturity and age can work different for a different race, bodies/mind mind develop different, etc
i remember a discussion once (can't remember the canon) about a 100 year old character, for his race he was a child because they live like 900 years
(no subject)
(Anonymous) - 2012-10-12 18:39 (UTC) - Expandno subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-13 07:25 am (UTC)(link)so yeah.
SA
(Anonymous) 2012-10-13 07:28 am (UTC)(link)Canon is currently introducing another 12 who are about ~18-ish? and there are historical adult trolls who are mostly all dead, but that's later shenanigans and stuff.
Re: http://gargleblasted.dreamwidth.org/2829716.html?thread=422533268#cmt422533268
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 06:58 pm (UTC)(link)Some people treat them as obviously not human and worry about their maturity by their culture's standards, and how well this translates to human understandings.
Some people say "ew, they're thirteen."
My issue with the second is that this is a bit like asking to card the random aliens in a Star Wars cantina. Their biologies, cultures and personalities are all radically different from a human's. There's mixed views on whether or not mating between a troll and a human is even biologically possible (because the author just sort of pointedly skirts the question and refers to their romance/reproduction as weird and overly complex.).
It's like saying a D&D or Pathfinder Elf is "good to go" sexually at the age of eighteen because, well, they're eighteen, right? Except that elves aren't considered fit to leave society until they're eighty or so. The average Salarian out of Mass Effect looks semi-humanoid, but has a lifespan of around 40 years. Are the the sort of creature that should be held to a 70-80 average human lifespan in terms of social maturity? Reproductively, trolls are hitting puberty at or just before, and mature in odd ways (given that their individual biologies vary by blood type). Their culture resembles nothing like earth, and they barely understand its culture at best.
Saying "ew, they're 13" is understandable. I 'get' that the hangup's there, but what I don't understand is why you're assuming they're human. What?
Re: http://gargleblasted.dreamwidth.org/2829716.html?thread=422533268#cmt422533268
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 07:20 pm (UTC)(link)it's not a cute or a funny post, it's skeevy and weird and i'm honestly surprised there aren't more characters saying something about it. i'm guessing this isn't a very serious game or something?
no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 07:29 pm (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 07:29 pm (UTC)(link)Re: http://gargleblasted.dreamwidth.org/2829716.html?thread=422533268#cmt422533268
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 07:38 pm (UTC)(link)Re: http://gargleblasted.dreamwidth.org/2829716.html?thread=422533268#cmt422533268
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 07:43 pm (UTC)(link)but apparently this isn't a serious game so i can see why no1curr.
Re: http://gargleblasted.dreamwidth.org/2829716.html?thread=422533268#cmt422533268
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 07:46 pm (UTC)(link)In the comic, several troll characters (who are 13 years old) act freaked out when sex objects (buckets) were in plain view.
In the post, Feferi seems completely oblivious to what's going on, because she's thirteen and that's the joke the player is making
Do you not see the problem here?
AYRT
(Anonymous) 2012-10-12 09:36 pm (UTC)(link)I am actually more trying to question and address the general view that treats these characters as basically human, but with gray skin. In a way, even the Feferi-mun is slightly guilty of this. Though they use different words for certain concepts and play up a little non-human behavior, they do give off the vibe of "I got away with putting this kid on stage," which is just as problematic (if not worse) as the other extreme of "How dare you put them in any adult situations. They're 13!"
So, yes, we agree that this player's got some issues going here. I'm trying to move past and ask a question about a more general habit in the HS fandom. However, this is wankgate, so I'm not sure it's the best venue for the topic to really be considered.
Re: AYRT
(Anonymous) 2012-10-13 03:31 am (UTC)(link)Races like elves, that you mentioned, where 18 can't really be the age for sex if they're still considered mentally children at 200, are much better examples than the trolls. Sure, they've had a hard life, but we see them doing lots of normal things, too; playing with toys and games, getting into petty arguments with friends, showing love or at least caring for their lusii, getting and losing crushes with ridiculous frequency, and pretty much everything else you witness on a typical day in any junior high. That's why "But they're 13!" really does work in this instance.
Re: AYRT
(Anonymous) - 2012-10-13 03:35 (UTC) - ExpandRe: http://gargleblasted.dreamwidth.org/2829716.html?thread=422533268#cmt422533268
(Anonymous) 2012-10-13 05:51 am (UTC)(link)not just on the age front, but people have a bad habit of making them view, say, sex or violence the same way (violence is bad, sex before a certain age/done in a certain way is bad, etc.). I hate this trend of holding non-human characters up to human standards, and I hate it even worse when people play non-human characters as having surprisingly human-moral convictions when they really shouldn't.
I've never been able to put my buttrage into adequate words before, and your post does just that. so, thanks.