wankgate | 245: Tone Death Rapture: Championship Edition : Tournament Edition

No I take that back actually I wouldn't be okay with nazi porn even in rp but ... teens having sex? definitely belongs in don't like don't read not hurting anyone territory.

how is AI art for personal use worse than the enormous amount of fanart theft that is people making fanart icons without asking or crediting artists

no one is selling either one of these things, but one can at least use servers not trained on stolen art and the other one IS stolen art

this is genuinely good to hear!

who keeps inviting the circus to wankgate???

"who put all this water here," local fish asks

this is bait. i will bite.

i'm literally an artist. i literally draw my own icons. i literally don't use fanart icons unless i have express permission from the artist in question for this exact reason. i actually mind when other people do it, but i'm not the type to morally police strangers on the internet. no, i am not going to call it out either. we've had this talk as a community, and i'm at peace with people not being morally correct in my exact purview. nice tu quoque though.

but let's just use your hypothetical. if someone is unable to draw, and uses ai algorithms to create their drawings... where's the data coming from? their own art? they can't draw. that's why they're using ai art. if they aren't curating their own work, they have to use art from practiced artists. and they need a lot of art for the algorithm to work properly. where's the data coming from, anon? are those artists getting paid, anon? are those artists getting paid every single time someone comes across an ai art generator and feels like they'd like to see some shitty anime girl with too many fingers?

i understand and appreciate the concept of using ai art to facilitate one's own art process, and i'd even be behind the idea if the technology was readily accessible to an artist who could use their own body of work as a database. it's not, or at least, none of the technology is marketed in that way. stable diffusion, i'm looking at you.

come at me with a nuanced argument, anon. no what if-isms, no "if we lived in an ideal world where things could be nice". reality. i'd be happy to talk about it as someone whose livelihood is directly affected by how ai art is manufactured and distributed, but if i see one more logical fallacy out of you, i'm out.

maybe you should get better at fishing if you’re gonna be mad about your bait being obvious

why

(affectionately pinches your cheek) eat shit lmao

well said

no

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that

i'll bite too, assuming a good faith conversation. fellow irl professional artist here. i don't see AI as a genuine commercial threat to artisan artwork. it's an incomplete and crude product that will improve with time but cannot answer client requests at a granular level. it's the equivalent of industrializing art through clumsy mass production work.

ultimately, what we as professional artists provide is a tailored service that answers the nuances of what our clients need and a unique art perspective. AI by definition cannot do that, because it's confined to the styles and vision already inputted to it. it can copy but not create. we saw this exact same outrage against 3d printing a few years ago, and that also didn't kill artisan markets.

as for the dwrp application: the people who are opting for AI icons probably couldn't afford individual art commission anyway, anon. you're not losing money to AI, because this was never a potential clientbase for you.

if you are genuinely worried about your livelihood, which can always be rocked in our industry, i recommend diversifying your services (and focusing on growing skills in areas where maybe you haven't explored as much before). are you a good creator of in person art? try digital. already good at digital illustration? look at cards, covers, learn printing requirements to add those kinds of samples to your book. consider 3d art. etcetera.

nayrt

“ultimately, what we as professional artists provide is a tailored service that answers the nuances of what our clients need and a unique art perspective. AI by definition cannot do that, because it's confined to the styles and vision already inputted to it.”

except a company does not always give a shit about quality and vision and will always readily take the option that costs them less money.

this isn’t a problem in only AI art, it’s a problem in multiple business right now because companies will choose shit over actual capable performance if it saves them from having to pay people.

telling people “diversify your services” is completely unhelpful to the discussion.

that's not how companies that employ artists work in my experience, because they are very specific in their requirements. when you're with a publishing house, in their sample book, for instance, they already have a budget - where they try to dime you is in your copyright allowances. plus, any reputable employer is hyper paranoid about getting in legal trouble and would want 100% clarity about the origin and sourcing of the art they by distribution rights for. AI can't produce that.

i'm sorry you don't feel that advice is helpful, but i've been around this block before, as a professional artist, making a living through periods of art trends and recession: diversifying your style and service will give you a leg up. AI can't do that.

your singular experience as a person does not speak for what is happening out there right now and it makes your whole take come across as incredibly naive.

as I said, this is not only a problem with AI art alone there are multiple businesses that are experiencing this issue in similar ways. there are companies out there that readily admit plans that they’re looking to use tech to do the work that humans would normally do because it is cheaper.

you are changing the franework here. i answered an artist anon discussing the art industry, which is all i'm qualified and experienced to speak about. no where did i comment on the effect of AI on other industries. equally, you can't put down my experience as a working professional in the sector that i am active in and talking about.

okay, fine, let’s focus on just art then because as I’ve seen it, even major professional artists who “diversify” their art as you put it are against AI.

you can say “I’m a professional in this industry” as much as you want but you’re still just that: a singular person who cannot speak for everyone.

sure, and their experience is just their singular experience too. you're also ignoring my comment's premise: i said, i don't see AI as a genuine commercial threat to artisan artwork. i didn't say it will not impact the industry in any way.

to repeat what i think makes human art service more attractive:
- human ability to meet very granular and custom client needs. this includes the ability to minorly edit an image, which AI can't do without regeberating an image and potentially getting other stuff wrong while tweaking; separately, you often work with your client to develop an image concept, which AI cannot do. the client would have to come to AI with a set in stone brief - most clients actually are not prepared to do that or at that stage in the creative process. you often have to guide them, which AI can't.
- unique human style, AI is limited to what it can copy
- distribution and copyright concerns (this is a major thing)

theres no possible way youre an artist. you are at best management at a printing company. theres like 6 different bizarre tone deaf things in this post alone.

"AI's not a real problem," you say. "try doing digital illustration instead." bonkers. have to be trolling.

3d printing requires an initial investment of hundreds of dollars. midjourney requires... that youre in the discord. all day long people ask midjourney for "tailored services that answer the nuances of the client wants" - people are perfectly happy to reroll 2-3 times to get within spitting distance of their shit, which they then get for free. AI will absolutely wipe out a good chunk of commissioning, has poisoned all online art forums and marketplaces, and by the way, not limited to plastic arts, is already responsible for shuttering submissions at fic mags.

you of course have nothing to be afraid of until people are replacing managers with ai. its coming tho ^_^

i can't prove my credentials anonymously any more than you can. all i can say is i am an artist (digital and painting, no 3d), i have been working for over a decade, and i've had to do my own contracts and watch my back with companies, individual contractors and agents. i don't work in online forums or for fic mags, so i can't and won't try to speak for that, though i have worked covers, feature pages and box illustration for print magazines.

you can call me a manager of whatever you like, but this is honestly getting into the part where i said i was commenting assuming good faith and that people wanted to truly debate this topic that is very relevant to my industry. if all you want is an echo chamber and doomposting, then yeah, i'll bow out. that's not my experience so far, as a result of AI.

i'd even be behind the idea if the technology was readily accessible to an artist who could use their own body of work as a database.

you can do this on openai for about $10. i did it yesterday

print magazine readership and revenue has been on a steady decline for decades. granted it will be a long time before, say, the new yorker starts doing AI illustrations. for everyone else, the future is already here.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230308235551/https://www.washingtonpost.com/comics/2023/02/14/ai-in-illustration/

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/lifestyle/a40314356/dall-e-2-artificial-intelligence-cover/

https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/20/23363073/ai-art-generator-illustrator-news-site-the-bulwark

young artists will not be able to follow in your footsteps. the connections are not going to be there. the contracts are not going to be there. good for you that youre successful, but the world that made you is dead now. maybe people are mad because youre dancing on top of a ladder that's being pulled up, and youre saying the people left behind are getting left behind because they wont "diversify."

like the dying print mags are gonna start commissioning statues now that illustration is so easy?!

that's a slightly malicious read, anon. i never said you're getting left behind because you won't diversify, i said, that's one way to try to escape this. it's what i had to do too. i started with completely traditional art and fought the shift to digital for as long as i could, and now most of my paid work is digital. i need to figure out a way to diversify into 3d too, because there is a good amount of money i am leaving on the table too.

we, as an industry, will have to evolve, yes. but thinking there is no space left for human originality, service and ability to shape vision is imo pessimistic. art has always been a luxury product. chanel hasn't gone out of business because you can 3d print or fake a bag.

"art is about human originality and vision"

"art has always been a luxury product"

ah jeez buddy looks like you spilled a bunch of capitalism into the wellspring of the muses, and the predictable results are forthcoming. the non-"luxury product" end of art is going away, and with it, thousands of artists are going to have to do non-art day jobs. we build a future where only independently wealthy individuals will be able to afford not just the luxury of having art made for them, but the luxury of spending any significant amount of time making art. we will all be aesthetically poorer for it.

comparing yourself to chanel is not doing you a lot of favors on the "your experience doesnt generalize well" front, either.

245: Tone Death Rapture: Championship Edition : Tournament Edition

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