wankgate | 245: Tone Death Rapture: Championship Edition : Tournament Edition

the work i do involves seeing clients adjust what they want when they see it iteratively produced. today's creative clients, when they have money and time, are picky in ways AI can't presently meet. what i'm trying to tell you is that the clients are going to get less of that kind of picky when they have more power to create something Good Enough without having to work with you. the tech will also get better at meeting those needs anyway.

they are going to accept the 80% match for their vision if they can do it themselves by yelling at a computer. art anon was quite right that chanel types will continue to request chanel levels of personal service, but this is not going to be the majority of the work done.

AI cant replace truly creative work, but it can replace illustration products, and it will, and the clients you think wont accept it today are going to adjust their demands and expectations when they can get most of what they had in mind for a fraction of the cost and time. ive watched it happen, ive been at the table.

> when they have a lot of money and time

lol. lmao. There is no way you interact with real humans in a creative job in any capacity

actually the same anon that opened up this whole thing, but i think the professional level pricepoint is a fair observation. illustration at a (highstakes) professional level does require a lot of human communication at a level ai currently can't compete with, and that time and energy is (usually) compensated fairly.

i do suppose that on one hand, automated phone menus never fully put human customers out of business, but on the other, i've worked at an automated phone menu farm (because that shit isn't actually automated lmao), so i know how the people behind this technology are paid (directly). for ai, i'm distinctly less sure, so i'd much rather futureproof with ai that starts with the artist community in mind. that means a product that guarantees my information stays with me. again, not a lot of ai technology is marketed widely in that way, probably because it's a bit of a taboo topic in the artist community in the first place and it will take a LOT to regain that trust - look at the csp one-two debacle, and the only thing they did wrong was have an overly complicated pricing chart. still, helping us meet deadlines would be a step in the right direction.

for what it's worth, i think the anon i just replied to has a fair point regarding artists trying to get past hobby level. hobby level illustrators are never going to see the kind of money spoken about here. i'm genuinely a little annoyed by holdouts in the "but i just want to draw 5$ comms for my friends while also opening commissions for the literally thousands of people following me" argument, especially now that we're working with a competitor who can create a similar product for the low, low price of free... but that's a separate argument and i actually refuse to engage, whether the argument is nuanced or not. sorry, i've lost enough hair over it.

this is all true

just as it's been true for many non-creative industries over the years

the entire point is creative industries don't work on the same principles, this is what you don't seem to be getting

AI can't mimic creativity

you dont seem to be getting that your industry is about to change its mind about that.

especially if your business is spot illustrations and greeting cards. the accountants are coming for your ass like they came for music and perfume. if it can be done kind of as good for 1/10th the price, that is how it's going to be.

anon assuming for a single second you're right and AI can do all this and accountants cut costs to the bone, then this will be true across multiple industries (planning, consulting, writing, accounting itself even teaching) and art will be more protected than your average industry because it relies on creativity that other industries don't

in certain respects, anon, you need to touch less grass and pay attention to whats going on online.

+1, da

Clients cheap enough to be satisfied with AI were rarely paying my prices to begin with, while the people who want my expertise, design skills and talents continue to pay me. I’m glad cheap clients will be largely out of my hair, at least until this AI thing blows over like cryptocurrency and NFTs did.

I get the feeling that the problem will be resolved soon enough without our input. All it will take is enough people using AI art to recreate copyrighted imagery (Disney characters, for example) to get lawyers involved and AI art use will be given heavy restrictions to prevent copyright violations.

michael mouse please save us, i just want to start 3 hours ahead of my own process with the neat scifi technology

ayrt

Agreed. This is not like TikTok or any other technology creep that gets people comfortable in stages before moving on to something else. Look at how insidious the development and broad-scale deployment of algorithms was. AI is moving too fast to not scare big companies, and powerful individuals whose image might be threatened by it. (You can already see what's happening with celebrity deep fakes with Trump, Biden etc.)

original argument anon here. i think my faith in other people's taste for art is too weak to believe that this is the future, and i also think ai art progression is going to get sophisticated enough to satisfy the threshold above 80% "good enough", but i've been wrong before. i hope my pessimism loses this fight, because that vision genuinely paints a very nice picture, no pun intended. i'm preparing for the worst, though.

hostile to artists-who-are-ok-with-AI anon here. i work in the technology field. ive been watching the creatives get their jobs replaced by Good Enough. writers at least have the WGA, visual artists just have hoping that rich boomers like their personal service enough to pay a premium because the art itself is not going to pay the fucking bills in a few years, guys.

i was so busy being pissed at the artists, who to me, the tech ant, look like grasshoppers fiddling in the fields, that i forgot to mention preventative measures. if you make art and you post it online please consider glaze https://glaze.cs.uchicago.edu or similar technologies. you need to protect yourselves. you deserve to protect yourselves. from the technology end, i do what i can to minimize the antihuman effects of whats coming out, but let me tell you, there are not a lot of us out there looking out for people.

People made these arguments when photography was invented though. Some jobs might warp around new technologies, but they still exist. You don't see many scribes anymore, but there are plenty of jobs that involve transcription or closed-captioning. Tech is going to keep steamrolling things, but that doesn't mean that creative people can't adapt and make it work with them. You need to understand art to make good art with AI. Randos get mutants and mush jobs, but someone who understands technique can use AI as a tool to create something extraordinary.

as someone with no artistic talent, I have to say that my blunderings with midjourney look like absolute ass. there's some kind of talent you need to make these robots produce anything of note.

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photography replaced painter jobs with photographer jobs. AI is replacing people with computers.

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there are some art jobs that artists are getting paid for right now that require creativity, and some that don't

it's the former that's going to more or less disappear as a way to make a living, but you could say the same for writing and coding

*latter

dummy!

yeah this. the artists i know who are flipping out about potentially losing their livelihoods to AI are people who didn't really have art livelihoods in the first place - that is, people who've maybe done a few short stints at indie studios, but mostly draw people's ocs sucking dicks on twitter for $70 a pop because they're not skilled or creative or efficient enough to do more than that. what they're worried about is a fictional full-time job somewhere impressive being taken away from them in the future they've made up in their head

ironically, with the limitations on nsfw it's the Tumblr artists who draw dicks who will still be making some pocket change

ai-drawn porn definitely exists but it's really bad. it all looks exactly the same and consistently fucks up anatomy in distracting and off-putting ways, much like ai-drawn regular art

Imo the human imagination for freaky porn is the one thing ai will never, ever keep up with

yeah i think that is the difference between some of the people in this thread, professional artists vs plurk and tumblr commission artists. one has a much more replaceable skillset than the other and AI is a bigger threat for them because it can produce something closer to their level

another pro artist here and this has been largely the case I've noticed with people using anti-AI anon's kind of phrasing

ftr I am also very anti-AI for ethical reasons, but I promise it's possible to argue against it without being a weird hostile idiot to anyone with opposing viewpoints

245: Tone Death Rapture: Championship Edition : Tournament Edition

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+1